Confirmed by MA ... using vehicles while killing mobs is an exploit ...

Svako

Active Member
I think, if some game mechanic should be considered to be a punishable exploit, it should have a reason.
For flying vehicle ping-pong the reason provided by MA was, that it gives players advantage as they don't have to wear any armor and they avoid getting decay. I agree with that, it's pretty reasonable.

So the question is, what would be the reasonable reason for tanking AOE to be prohibited? No impact to MA, no impact to other players, etc...
 

DarkMoonEnigma

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If i get killed its okay i revive no damage done, i will just have to fly back.
If someone uses my ship as a damage tank while i am away though that might get me banned with the rule stated above.

Also, you can also say that i sat in the 2nd seat and will take no damage while i am AFK,
Someone can still do the same act stated one sentence above and verdict should be the same.
Because according to rule stated, whether i am in the ship or not does not matter.
Someone tanked damage using a vehicle which is an exploit.
Parties that took part in the process should be banned.
Then the information I shared should help you to make better decisions with regard to protecting yourself rather than leaving yourself open to a potential situation while in a mob area. :)

At any rate, perhaps MA will give some consideration to this and come up with a better solution. In the meantime, gathering a team if needed to take down a mob because of the difficulty doing it solo can be a fun team effort without entertaining vehicles. Dying, reviving and going back at it is part of game play as well ... everything doesn't need to be easy because you're thinking about the potential loot ... work for it. :p
 

DarkMoonEnigma

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I think, if some game mechanic should be considered to be a punishable exploit, it should have a reason.
For flying vehicle ping-pong the reason provided by MA was, that it gives players advantage as they don't have to wear any armor and they avoid getting decay. I agree with that, it's pretty reasonable.

So the question is, what would be the reasonable reason for tanking AOE to be prohibited? No impact to MA, no impact to other players, etc...
In a word ... decay. :)
 

Avum AL

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Then the information I shared should help you to make better decisions with regard to protecting yourself rather than leaving yourself open to a potential situation while in a mob area. :)

At any rate, perhaps MA will give some consideration to this and come up with a better solution. In the meantime, gathering a team if needed to take down a mob because of the difficulty doing it solo can be a fun team effort without entertaining vehicles. Dying, reviving and going back at it is part of game play as well ... everything doesn't need to be easy because you're thinking about the potential loot ... work for it. :p
I totally agree with the 2nd paragraph :)

For the first paragraph,
Yes this is why we love the work you guys do as a VS team, you care for community and you all try to solve issues before they cause problems and if they end up in a problem you always try to do your best to solve them too.
On the other hand, i don`t want anyone to get banned because they had to take a step back from the game because of a real-life interruption when they had no intention of breaking the rules.
 

Svako

Active Member
In a word ... decay. :)
Example:

Let's say I fight an AOE boss and tank it with 2 pitbulls, with my 120 DPS and let's say the fight will last 3 minutes. I take triple decay for 3 minutes.
Now let's compare it with same setup, but replacing 2 pitbulls with 2 same ranked players like me:
DPS: 360
Fight duration: 1 minute
Decay taken: same but for 2 minutes less

Conclusion: If I tank with 2 pitbulls I pay more decay, than having same fight with 2 other players (and combined decay).
As far as I know, MA takes small portion of decay as revenue, so scenario 1 means more money for MA than scenario 2.

Only advantage for me from this is, that I can do it alone whenever I want, instead of waiting for more and more people to come join me and for this advantage, I pay the extra MU :)

This was my reasoning why AOE tanking should not be prohibited, now it's MA turn for their reasoning :)
 

Hally

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This is a surprise, I personally had the impression that MA had previously said officially that this was a game mechanic, it IS also a good example of MA support and staff not always understanding the game to the level that we as players would prefer, because this has been going on for just about the same amount of time as we have had AOE mobs and vehicles in the game.
This question have been asked thousands of times, and to my knowledge this is the first time the answer has been said as clearly as presented here. And yet we still don't have a clear answer from MA, they HAVE to make this a public statement.
I have invested 2 decades and more money then i care to admit into this avatar, i don't like that i could loose it to a sudden clarity from one or more MA staff. of course ill refrain from doing this again, but come on man, this has to be better governed.
As for allowed or not, ill just follow the rules, i don't care much if we can or we cant. I just want to be told in clear and understandable terms.
 

DarkMoonEnigma

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Just as an FYI ... I did not get my information from MA Support.

Also, I can't respond on behalf of MA, but your feedback here is appreciated. My MA source has the link to this thread to review, but is not obligated to respond. At least they will have a window into how our community thinks and feels about it, then it is up to them to do whatever they decide is necessary, but I am also not asking for a response from my MA source either. :)
 

FireFist

Active Member
all it means ultimately is that bosses wont be taken down without a larger group or more geared ppl...when means less hunting and ped spent towards those mobs unfortunately and time will determine if its worth the call >< and hopefully this MA official does read through this forum post and see the pros n cons of this type of strategy.
 

FireFist

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I dont understand MA source isnt MA support? are they in a position where their input is a representation of how MA acts and decides to act towards strategy displayed in the game? im confused on that ><
 

DarkMoonEnigma

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I dont understand MA source isnt MA support? are they in a position where their input is a representation of how MA acts and decides to act towards strategy displayed in the game? im confused on that ><
MA Support is a means to initiate a support ticket if you have issues that need to be resolved one way or another.

My MA source is outside of that system.
 

Avum AL

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Example:

Let's say I fight an AOE boss and tank it with 2 pitbulls, with my 120 DPS and let's say the fight will last 3 minutes. I take triple decay for 3 minutes.
Now let's compare it with same setup, but replacing 2 pitbulls with 2 same ranked players like me:
DPS: 360
Fight duration: 1 minute
Decay taken: same but for 2 minutes less

Conclusion: If I tank with 2 pitbulls I pay more decay, than having same fight with 2 other players (and combined decay).
As far as I know, MA takes small portion of decay as revenue, so scenario 1 means more money for MA than scenario 2.

Only advantage for me from this is, that I can do it alone whenever I want, instead of waiting for more and more people to come join me and for this advantage, I pay the extra MU :)

This was my reasoning why AOE tanking should not be prohibited, now it's MA turn for their reasoning :)
The situation is even better for MA if the said mob regenerates.
Lets say a mob has Y hp and regenerates X per minute:

If 3 players kill the mob in 1 minute. You have to damage(peds spent) X+Y
If 1 player uses 2 ships to tank damage, it will take 3 minutes and you have to damage X+3Y

It will take a bit longer than 3 mins but im neglecting that as i doesnt matter for explaining the idea.​
 

DarkMoonEnigma

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Look guys ... as your Community Manager it is my responsibility to look out for you and keep you informed so that there are no potential problems, and I will continue to do that. I saw how much fun it was for you guys to use the vehicles to take down our new shared loot boss on DSEC-9 (DSEC OTIS Commander) and do it a lot quicker than usual, or without vehicles.

However, I've been in this game for 16+ years and have seen a lot of discussions about exploits, including using vehicles in this manner, so it was good to get clarification to prevent any potential issues for any of you because of it.

Whether MA does anything about it or not is up to them. I'm just sharing information as I got it directly from MA management and then passed on the confirmation regarding this activity to you guys.

I believe your feedback may be helpful in the greater scheme of things, and perhaps taken into consideration. I appreciate that you have also been constructive in your feedback, it means a lot. :thumbsup
 

Svako

Active Member
This is a surprise, I personally had the impression that MA had previously said officially that this was a game mechanic, it IS also a good example of MA support and staff not always understanding the game to the level that we as players would prefer, because this has been going on for just about the same amount of time as we have had AOE mobs and vehicles in the game.
This question have been asked thousands of times, and to my knowledge this is the first time the answer has been said as clearly as presented here. And yet we still don't have a clear answer from MA, they HAVE to make this a public statement.
I have invested 2 decades and more money then i care to admit into this avatar, i don't like that i could loose it to a sudden clarity from one or more MA staff. of course ill refrain from doing this again, but come on man, this has to be better governed.
As for allowed or not, ill just follow the rules, i don't care much if we can or we cant. I just want to be told in clear and understandable terms.
Few months back I spoke with one of the officials outside Feffoid pit on Caly and he told me that ping pong is exploit, tanking is OK, because of the decay reason I have mentioned above.
Afterwards, many people told me, that support confirmed that tanking is exploit too, others told me that support confirmed it's not exploit... made my own support ticket, haven't had any answer in a month so i withdrawn it...

All I ask is that MA will make an official statement with a real reason :)

EDIT: if it was not clear from above, I agree with all you said, communication from MA have to be improved.
 
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DarkMoonEnigma

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Here is a link to the Caly forum where a thread from 2017 addressed this with a response from an MA Support person.

Their response was:
  • "we would say that this is a prohibited form of hunting" ... and
  • "However, it will have to be taken up with the management"
I took it up with MA management for clarification and confirmation.


I believe it would also apply not just to AoE mobs. Again from a decay perspective.
 

Svako

Active Member
Awesome, finally someone who is willing to push things up, we highly appreciate this DME!

MA really have to differentiate between ping-ponging mobs and aoe mobs tanking and stop calling it with same name: "vehicle hunting"
These are two very different things with different impacts on player and MA.

Honestly, this is very important topic for planet partners mostly. Caly is crowded, always was, always will be, ask in wave chat for help and few green dots will come within minutes, 24/7... other planets that are less crowded, are very limited to prime time.
 

DarkMoonEnigma

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Reminder ... that thread was posted in July 2017, and I'm sure there are others ... that one was just brought to my attention and I thought that I would share it with you as a means of more information.
 

Heidi Stassinopolis

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I'd like to know what is the position if I am hopping around in my sleip to pick up mining claims and leave my sleip spawned while drilling?

If I am then attacked by aggro mobs and the vehicle takes damage and I continue drilling (because sometimes getting the claim before the timer runs out is more important thatn shooting the mob) is this included in this poorly thought out "rule"??

I realise that you, DME, have to be diplomatic and maintain the MA policy etc and I think it is very poor of MA to not be the ones defending themselves and leaving you in the position to do it for them. We all know that you just want to look out for the players.

If it's a game mechanic it can't be an exploit unless it is a broken game mechanic i.e. like the reload issue with yog horror pets, therefore it is upto MA to fix the mechanic not make up conflicting and ill thought out honour rules that just open a can of worms.
 

DarkMoonEnigma

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I realise that you, DME, have to be diplomatic and maintain the MA policy etc and I think it is very poor of MA to not be the ones defending themselves and leaving you in the position to do it for them. We all know that you just want to look out for the players.
I wanted to respond to this portion of your post to let you know that MA didn't put me in a position to defend them. I'm not really doing any defending at all ... I am merely sharing information regarding the response I got about players using vehicles to shield themselves from damage and decay ... nothing more, nothing less. :)

I have not taken a defensive posture to any responses in this thread, but rather questioned why some would do certain things to leave themselves vulnerable, like leave a vehicle in a mob area while going AFK to do some real life stuff.

There are a lot of scenarios that community members could come up with, and I think they are valid, so hopefully this thread is being read and some consideration being given. I am trying to be supportive in that respect as well, which is why I invited you guys to share your feedback.

I would rather this process be constructive than turning it into a negative finger pointing at MA. I asked them for help because I wanted to have a definitive answer for the community, they kindly gave it, and now I'm asking you guys for your help in giving feedback so that MA can see how you're affected by this rule.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to post, and just maybe if we continue to do this in a constructive manner it might have a positive effect.

You just never know. :)
 

FireFist

Active Member
I wanted to respond to this portion of your post to let you know that MA didn't put me in a position to defend them. I'm not really doing any defending at all ... I am merely sharing information regarding the response I got about players using vehicles to shield themselves from damage and decay ... nothing more, nothing less. :)

I have not taken a defensive posture to any responses in this thread, but rather questioned why some would do certain things to leave themselves vulnerable, like leave a vehicle in a mob area while going AFK to do some real life stuff.

There are a lot of scenarios that community members could come up with, and I think they are valid, so hopefully this thread is being read and some consideration being given. I am trying to be supportive in that respect as well, which is why I invited you guys to share your feedback.

I would rather this process be constructive than turning it into a negative finger pointing at MA. I asked them for help because I wanted to have a definitive answer for the community, they kindly gave it, and now I'm asking you guys for your help in giving feedback so that MA can see how you're affected by this rule.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to post, and just maybe if we continue to do this in a constructive manner it might have a positive effect.

You just never know. :)
in this ur not shielded from decay since ur vehicles are taken damage which in turn will need repaired + the tt value will decay so, really ur taking on more decay but, Toulan for example if we dont have the stronger players here or a large amount of players will to take on the mobs these mobs will be unlikely taken down which in turn leads to only select time ppl can do these and if they cant pay more decay to accomplish this then there wont be any decay because those player wont hunt the bigger mobs anymore.

but, yes they would be mitigating damage but, the damage is still there. which like we've pointed out the bouncing a mob back and forth like monkey in the middle which makes it so, decay and damage is extremely reduced and if ur good at it you should take much if any damage/decay which we all agree is an exploit. but, when ur increasing decay but, supplying vehicles to mitigate damage wouldnt be much different than adding players that did nothing and stood there and absorbed the damage and didnt do damage because again damage is being done therefore decay is being placed there is no avoiding decay here. The benefit here is for planets like Toulan where population is extremely low you're now enabled to actually continue on with an event through the weekend rather for the first few hours when everyone is there.

I remember saturday and sunday there wasnt the godlies on Toulan taking down the bosses and with what we had bosses werent going to come down without the strategy this was for many hours(most of the event). so, the question is why is in a sense spending more to take down a mob frowned upon? thats odd to me >< using these vehicles this why is no different than using an extender on ur weapon of choice to lengthen your hunting time the extender decay just like the vehicles and all is well. its not like anyone was using mounted guns on the vehicles to take down the mobs either though i dont understand why that would be an issue either but, that besides the point. I just hope someone in MA takes a look at this thread and can see exactly what theyre taking a stand against because it literally doesnt make sense >< lol
 
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